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Author Topic: FIX D2/D3 regionals! Here is my thought.  (Read 1844 times)
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Numbers
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« on: February 11, 2018, 06:33:09 PM »

If Wisconsin is keeping regionals, D2 & D3 should move to the Division 1 model (2 regionals make 1 sectional) .  D2/D3 would have up to a 16 man brackets at regionals with the top 4 moving to sectionals.  (I assume the top 3 at sectionals would still qualify for state.)

So 8 D2 regionals make 4 D2 sectionals.  I combined Regional 1/2 participant numbers and Regional 3/4 participant numbers for each sectional.  Here are the brackets sizes for the proposed regional brackets from yesterday.  (112 regional brackets in each division)

Division 2
25 -  8 (or less) in bracket
15 - 9 in bracket
31 - 10 in bracket
27 - 11 in bracket
12 - 12 in bracket
2 - 13 in bracket
0 - 14 in bracket

Division 3
64 -  8 (or less) in bracket  - (Yes 57% of the D3 brackets still fit 8 man regional brackets!)
15 - 9 in bracket
17 - 10 in bracket
8 - 11 in bracket
4 - 12 in bracket
3 - 13 in bracket
1 - 14 in bracket

So this year in the round of 16 (out of 224 brackets) all #1 and #2 would not have wrestled.  One #3 seed and five #4 seeds wrestlers would have wrestled in the round of 16.  So in those 3% of brackets, if the #3 or #4 seed loses to the #13 or #14 seed in round one of regionals, I believe they would not be able to wrestle back for 4th (without hitting the daily match limit) and therefore could not qualify for Sectionals.  

Note:  Do not lose to a double digit seed if you want to advance to sectionals.

Other items of note:  3 kids had no regional match yesterday.  There were 24 weights where the two kids advanced directly to the regional finals.  Think the system might need a fix?  This is a wasted weekend for the wrestlers.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 12:15:52 AM by Numbers » Logged
DocWrestling
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2018, 08:39:01 PM »

  This is a wasted weekend for the wrestlers.



I cannot see how any school would even want to go through the work of hosting some of these regionals.  Can't make any money and if you do the WIAA gets 75% of it
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hornbuckleb
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2018, 11:46:36 PM »

Not sure this solves all of the problems, but would be a simple fix.  Never really understood having the same number of regionals as D1 with less teams.  To me it is too simple.  Reduce the number of regionals for D2 and D3, but add more teams to them.  Then increase the number of sectionals from four to six.  Like D1 take top 4 from regionals and top 2 from sectionals.  As fair as it is in D1 that way..

Currently D1 host 16 regionals and 8 sectionals, 24 Tournaments
Currently D2 and D3 host 16 regionals and 4 sectionals, 20 Torunaments

Poposed D1 the same
Proposed D2 and D3 host 12 regionals and 6 sectionals, 18 Tournaments

https://www.scribd.com/document/371312999/D2-D3-Proposal
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hornbuckleb
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2018, 11:56:19 PM »

Forgot to add

In the cases where you have 7 teams in a regional with the existing system, add in a pig tail for the 8th and 9th seed of the new. Max number of matches would still be 5.
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Barou
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2018, 09:19:49 AM »

Eliminate the regional and go to a 2 day super sectional.  All divisions.  Similar to JHI, Minnesota has it right on this.
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2018, 09:19:49 AM »

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handsandtoes
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2018, 12:31:11 PM »

So in D2 and D3 there are 16 regionals apiece.  Cut that to 8 and qualify the top 4 for sectionals. If you qualify 4 kids from regionals and 3 from sectionals you should get you best kids (for the most part) at the state tournament. Then Take your top 16 (ranked teams) in each division and seed them. Wrestling the first dual meet round Tuesday after the individual regionals at 8 different schools. The Tuesday after individual sectionals wrestle four more duals and you're down to four teams in each division for the state tournament. If you take the top 16 teams in the state odds are pretty good you have the best teams in there somewhere. Just my thoughts.
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Napoleon Dynamite
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2018, 12:39:47 PM »

So in D2 and D3 there are 16 regionals apiece.  Cut that to 8 and qualify the top 4 for sectionals. If you qualify 4 kids from regionals and 3 from sectionals you should get you best kids (for the most part) at the state tournament. Then Take your top 16 (ranked teams) in each division and seed them. Wrestling the first dual meet round Tuesday after the individual regionals at 8 different schools. The Tuesday after individual sectionals wrestle four more duals and you're down to four teams in each division for the state tournament. If you take the top 16 teams in the state odds are pretty good you have the best teams in there somewhere. Just my thoughts.

Like the thought, but no coach in their right mind is gonna want to have a dual 2 days before Individual state, 
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bigoil
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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2018, 01:18:32 PM »

So in D2 and D3 there are 16 regionals apiece.  Cut that to 8 and qualify the top 4 for sectionals. If you qualify 4 kids from regionals and 3 from sectionals you should get you best kids (for the most part) at the state tournament. Then Take your top 16 (ranked teams) in each division and seed them. Wrestling the first dual meet round Tuesday after the individual regionals at 8 different schools. The Tuesday after individual sectionals wrestle four more duals and you're down to four teams in each division for the state tournament. If you take the top 16 teams in the state odds are pretty good you have the best teams in there somewhere. Just my thoughts.

Like the thought, but no coach in their right mind is gonna want to have a dual 2 days before Individual state, 

Agreed - great idea and no way going to wrestle Tuesday after sectionals. You could take 8 to state (like D1) or wrestle 2 duals that first night just like they do now or wrestle the Tuesday after State.
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littleguy301
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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2018, 02:20:28 PM »

So in D2 and D3 there are 16 regionals apiece.  Cut that to 8 and qualify the top 4 for sectionals. If you qualify 4 kids from regionals and 3 from sectionals you should get you best kids (for the most part) at the state tournament. Then Take your top 16 (ranked teams) in each division and seed them. Wrestling the first dual meet round Tuesday after the individual regionals at 8 different schools. The Tuesday after individual sectionals wrestle four more duals and you're down to four teams in each division for the state tournament. If you take the top 16 teams in the state odds are pretty good you have the best teams in there somewhere. Just my thoughts.

Like the thought, but no coach in their right mind is gonna want to have a dual 2 days before Individual state, 

Agreed - great idea and no way going to wrestle Tuesday after sectionals. You could take 8 to state (like D1) or wrestle 2 duals that first night just like they do now or wrestle the Tuesday after State.

not sure, Minnesota has there team duals on Thursday and individual state is friday and satuarday. So I guess all of Minnesota is out of there minds Grin
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littleguy301
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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2018, 02:21:04 PM »

  This is a wasted weekend for the wrestlers.



I cannot see how any school would even want to go through the work of hosting some of these regionals.  Can't make any money and if you do the WIAA gets 75% of it

concessions!!!!!!!! for the school
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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2018, 02:21:04 PM »

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littleguy301
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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2018, 02:25:48 PM »

Eliminate the regional and go to a 2 day super sectional.  All divisions.  Similar to JHI, Minnesota has it right on this.

yes they do!!!!!!

I think this coming weekend in Rochester they have all 3 classes in their sectional wrestling for the right to get to team state! That is going to be alot of very, very good wrestling for sure!!!!!

so image division 1,2 and 3 in wisconsin in that same area sending there teams to 1 location to wrestle for first place and the right to go to team state. I believe a 2 day blast of wrestling in the team aspect of it.

of note, I think in AA Kasson-Manorville and Similey will be going at it in the finals to just make state! that is if they get through all the other teams first!
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2018, 02:31:23 PM »

this idea of having a individual tournament deciding who the best team going forward leaves a lot to be desired in my mind. Plus having it on a Tuesday night in between regionals and sectionals is I believe not in the best interests of the teams and more importantly the individuals attending.

In my sectional, the host school is Hayward. I am sure Hayward will be an awesome school to have it no doubt, but take alook at the 2 hour drive for some schools to get there on a school night.

while I love wrestling, sorry WIAA, I will not be attending the team sectional as a spectator on a Tuesday night with around a 3 1/2 to 4 hour round trip.

These need to be held on weekends or at the very least a Friday night. I would certainly be way more apt to make that several hour trip on a Friday or Satuarday!
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thequad
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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2018, 04:15:38 PM »

in D2 and D3 Simply combine 2 regionals seed into a 16 man bracket if you loose your first match you are out just like it is now.
In the wrestle backs there is a possibility that there could be a need for a 6th match if 3 hasn't met 4.
But this would be very rare if you use the rule for any rematch.
It gets very complicated. I wasn't able to find a case where this world happen.
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2018, 04:32:52 PM »

in D2 and D3 Simply combine 2 regionals seed into a 16 man bracket if you loose your first match you are out just like it is now.
In the wrestle backs there is a possibility that there could be a need for a 6th match if 3 hasn't met 4.
But this would be very rare if you use the rule for any rematch.
It gets very complicated. I wasn't able to find a case where this world happen.

If you wrestle back to 3rd without the losers of the first round, you would not hit 6 matches. Essentially you have a first round and then an 8-man bracket with wrestle back to third which should have 1 match plus 3 to 4 matches with a championship match resulting in 1st and 2nd, and consolation resulting in a 3rd and 4th place. No wrestle backs. Sectionals would then be 1 vs 4, 3 vs 2, 2 vs 3 and 4 vs 1.
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2018, 04:32:52 PM »

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mdbriggs
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2018, 05:38:19 PM »

Make this fix in all divisions (if you truly believe that we need 3 divisions) where if you loose your first match you are done.  Make super sectional on Regional weekend.  Followed by duals on Tuesday and Team State on Sectional weekend.  And Individual state on the same weekend as always. 
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