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Author Topic: Where is Wisconsin, Really?  (Read 1117 times)
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Japanese Whizzer
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« on: December 07, 2017, 02:05:36 PM »

Man, is there broad range out there regarding where Wisconsin ranks nationally as a program. Basically, it ranges from should be Top 5 to not in the Top 25. I wanted to narrow that down, so I did some research. This isn't the end all and be all, but it at least calls upon actual data to make an assessment. I used the last 10 years of results at the NCAA tournament as a sample.

Wisconsin is tied for 12th with seven Top 20s over the last decade. Here's the list:

http://i63.tinypic.com/35hgqrm.png

Additionally, they're tied for 11th with three Top 10s over the same decade. That list:

http://i64.tinypic.com/6xthqs.png

Over the last 10 years, starting with 2008, Wisconsin has finished

17th, 9th, 4th, 10th, 41st, 27th, 16th, 17th, 23rd, and 13th.

I think just outside the Top 10 is a fair assessment.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 12:42:19 PM by TomM » Logged
Ivan Stankowski
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2017, 02:10:12 PM »

Wait till next year  Roll Eyes

If we test grade the results and throw out the highest place and lowest place that puts them at an average of 16.5 place!!!
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leg turk
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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2017, 02:35:54 PM »

Look at the last 6 years.
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Japanese Whizzer
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2017, 02:49:28 PM »

Look at the last 6 years.

"Look at how unsuccessful we've been since our last success," is the definition of cherry-picking. That said, my goal here was to literally give the numbers rather than just guess at them.

In the last six seasons, 16 teams have a Top 10 finish. Wisconsin is not one of them. Wisconsin is tied for 18th with three Top 20 finishes over that six year span.
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leg turk
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2017, 03:25:54 PM »

No, the last 6 years is the most recent.  In the last 6 years, theBadgers should of at least snuck a 10th place in there.  

None if this really matters anyway.  Barry is going nowhere.  He can keep pumping out 14th - 18th finishes every year, and nothing will change.  Sorry, but I want more than that, I want them to be a top 10 team every year, with occasionally sticking in a top 4 or 5.  I don’t think that’s asking for a lot.  It could be done with the right guy in charge.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 03:32:57 PM by leg turk » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2017, 03:25:54 PM »

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Japanese Whizzer
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« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2017, 04:01:24 PM »

Sorry, but I want more than that, I want them to be a top 10 team every year, with occasionally sticking in a top 4 or 5.  I don’t think that’s asking for a lot.  It could be done with the right guy in charge.

Well, over the last decade, exactly two teams have been in the Top 10 every year. Maybe that's not asking a lot, but you know, ... it is. As to sneaking into the Top 5 every once in a while, only 14 teams have finished in the Top 5 over the last decade. Wisconsin is one of them.
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leg turk
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« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2017, 04:22:42 PM »

Sorry, but I want more than that, I want them to be a top 10 team every year, with occasionally sticking in a top 4 or 5.  I don’t think that’s asking for a lot.  It could be done with the right guy in charge.

Well, over the last decade, exactly two teams have been in the Top 10 every year. Maybe that's not asking a lot, but you know, ... it is. As to sneaking into the Top 5 every once in a while, only 14 teams have finished in the Top 5 over the last decade. Wisconsin is one of them.

Let me guess, that's when Pritzlaff was here helping coach?
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dad 2 5
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« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2017, 06:49:18 PM »

JW - nice research! Hope they can grab another top 20 this year and improve as the Wick's move up the rankings and finishes.
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AZKing
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« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2017, 02:28:57 AM »

 The badgers wrestled their butts off against  Maryland!  And then again while wrestling Whitewater!  I mean after performances like that who can argue with the delusions of many of these badger fans that Wisconsin wrestling is always a second away from becoming the next big thing?

 Even a blind squirrel picks up a nut 🥜 once in a while.

 But seriously hats off on the Maryland dual...that was some intensity. 👌

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Wrestling Thug
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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2017, 12:19:47 PM »

Sorry, but I want more than that, I want them to be a top 10 team every year, with occasionally sticking in a top 4 or 5.  I don’t think that’s asking for a lot.  It could be done with the right guy in charge.

Well, over the last decade, exactly two teams have been in the Top 10 every year. Maybe that's not asking a lot, but you know, ... it is. As to sneaking into the Top 5 every once in a while, only 14 teams have finished in the Top 5 over the last decade. Wisconsin is one of them.

Let me guess, that's when Pritzlaff was here helping coach?
Yes, and the up and down team finishes will continue as long as this staff exists! The Badgers and all median to low level teams are eventually going to get worse!  Having a monopoly on recruits will slowly kill teams. Some can with stand the monopoly longer than others (Wisconsin) and others are getting worse real quick! A lot of programs will never recover wrestling recession! My point about Wisconsin is that they need relevant coaches that can develop high school studs into college studs to bring in top recruits! Wisconsin does have some nice recruits, but they aren't turning into AA's to national champs! And I know they have had AA's, but not as many as they should!  
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 07:12:09 PM by TomM » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2017, 12:19:47 PM »

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CLC FAN
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« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2017, 01:16:09 PM »

Really cool use of data JW.

It is funny how people throw around phrases like "I want Wisconsin to be a top-10 team every year, Like X,Y, and Z" and then when it comes to the data, oh wait, X, Y, and Z aren't in the top 10 every year either!  According to a strict reading of the quote and the data - only Iowa and Cornell fit the bill.  

It's not in the nature of a fan base to be rational, but it would be interesting to delve into what fans of UW wrestling want most.  If they had to rank statements like:
UW will be in the Top 20 every year for the next 10 years
UW will be in the Top 10 at least twice in the next 10 years but will fall outside the Top 20 at least once
UW will be in the Top 5 at least once in the next 10 years but will fall outside the Top 20 at least twice

What would those rankings look like?  Are most of us going to be pleased with a bubble year of national relevancy followed by a down year or two?  Sure, it's fun to say I want to be consistently excellent - but which of those two things do you actually value more, the degree of consistency or the degree of excellence?


I also think Thug brings up some good points about wrestling recruiting being an unfair game.  Makes one think of Moneyball and just the mindset that says, "Yes, this is an extremely unfair playing field.  Since that is true, how do we take advantage of the Big Schools' blind spots to produce AAs and national qualifiers that we quote shouldn't?"

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Ty Clark
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« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2017, 02:37:32 PM »

Quote from: CLC FAN

I also think Thug brings up some good points about wrestling recruiting being an unfair game.  Makes one think of Moneyball and just the mindset that says, "Yes, this is an extremely unfair playing field.  Since that is true, how do we take advantage of the Big Schools' blind spots to produce AAs and national qualifiers that we quote shouldn't?"

I’ve said it before... start a JUCO team at MATC to be a feeder for the UW. Kids can still take classes at the UW, live in the same houses as UW wrestlers, practice with the UW team via the BRTC, and wrestle a D1 open schedule and even dual D1 teams, but they won’t eat up roster space and scholarship money while they are developing. Other than that, WI HS wrestlers are basically two years behind their counterparts from the elite wrestling states (ie: our best seniors are about as good as PA’s best sophomores.. outside of a few exceptions), and this system would get them caught up. Why have kids sit on the bench for two years when they could be out winning a couple JUCO titles?
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« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2017, 10:10:53 AM »

The badgers wrestled their butts off against  Maryland!  And then again while wrestling Whitewater!  I mean after performances like that who can argue with the delusions of many of these badger fans that Wisconsin wrestling is always a second away from becoming the next big thing?

 Even a blind squirrel picks up a nut 🥜 once in a while.

 But seriously hats off on the Maryland dual...that was some intensity. 👌



I'll say that since the start of last year BD has picked up the tempo a bit, in recruiting and intensity. What the heck is this thing?>👌
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crossface21
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« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2017, 11:00:52 AM »

Quote from: CLC FAN

I also think Thug brings up some good points about wrestling recruiting being an unfair game.  Makes one think of Moneyball and just the mindset that says, "Yes, this is an extremely unfair playing field.  Since that is true, how do we take advantage of the Big Schools' blind spots to produce AAs and national qualifiers that we quote shouldn't?"

I’ve said it before... start a JUCO team at MATC to be a feeder for the UW. Kids can still take classes at the UW, live in the same houses as UW wrestlers, practice with the UW team via the BRTC, and wrestle a D1 open schedule and even dual D1 teams, but they won’t eat up roster space and scholarship money while they are developing. Other than that, WI HS wrestlers are basically two years behind their counterparts from the elite wrestling states (ie: our best seniors are about as good as PA’s best sophomores.. outside of a few exceptions), and this system would get them caught up. Why have kids sit on the bench for two years when they could be out winning a couple JUCO titles?

Ty, are there any other programs out there that do something similar to this?
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« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2017, 11:00:52 AM »

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