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Poll
Question: Who's the best club in Wisconsin?
AWA - 24 (32.9%)
Ringers - 8 (11%)
Advance - 8 (11%)
RT Elite - 2 (2.7%)
Xfactor - 5 (6.8%)
Crass Trainer - 2 (2.7%)
other - 24 (32.9%)
Total Voters: 73

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Author Topic: Best Club  (Read 5707 times)
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getyourpoints
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« Reply #60 on: August 04, 2017, 02:57:18 PM »

Here are the variables with clubs:

1) Athletes and families willing to pay for extra instruction (i.e. - self-motivation and family support)
2) Regional Area for stud partners (i.e. - Iron Sharpens Iron)
3) Variable Techniques (i.e. - More tools in the tool box)
4) Since it is a business year-round training (i.e. - Freestyle and Greco  -which statistically shows a common variable in NCAA All-Americans)
5) Location (How many champs per 1,000 wrestlers within 100 square miles)
6) Confidence and attitude gained from being around other successful athletes

I think you will find they are all pretty good around the state when considering the variables.

GREAT POST!!!



Non-Club Successful Competitors-  Dedication, Brains, Athletics, Strength, and Muscle:Mass Ratio, and good partners in the room who may or may not train in a club.

It is like anything in life the more you do something and the more discipline you dedicate, the better you become.   It's like the cliche goes- Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work.  Some have the drive, talent, and family knowledge to do it on their own, while others need a personal trainer and a talented team to reach their goals.


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Razor Ramon
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« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2017, 01:13:02 PM »

2017 D2 state championship matches.
106 Xfactor vs PinNicle
113 no club vs Xfactor
120 Xfactor vs no info
126 combat vs AWA
132 PinNicle vs Advanced
138 aviators/Xfactor vs combat
145 no club vs Xfactor
152 law vs no club
160 no club vs kangaroo
170 no club vs title town
182 no vs no
195 no vs no
220 law vs no
Hwt title town vs no
I'm guessing D3 will be similar. So we can conclude you obviously don't have to be part of a club to be a champ. I'm sure it obviously would help.
Yes at D2 or D3 Not D1.
D1 clearly shows you need to be in a club, and the D2 & D3 numbers are up from last year and the previous year so you can see they are following the D1 trend. When I first started tracking this back in 2013 the D1 numbers were about 70% and now its 93%, and D2 was about 25% and now its about 60%. So based on projections if you have a younger wrestler at home I would say in the future it will be very unlikely to win state without attending a wrestling club. I would like to add that I feel its just as important to be part of a good MS&HS program. I also see a lot of very talented club kids that don't maintain or increase there ability's because they are not in the right HS room. To be a state finalist (especially at D1) it takes an army of support and a talented and motivated wrestler.
I think sports are coached and played on trends more then history, we will bank the trends.

Right with ya on this. As much as people want to argue with it, D2 and D3 is not even on the same level as D1, not even close. At times you may have 1 or 2 individuals in D2 and D3 who could compete for a title at D1, but that's a maybe. Like I said in my earlier post, in this day and age, the "elite" wrestlers are affiliated with a club in some way. The landscape has changed in the past 15 years, and that's not a bad thing by any means. I can only imagine what Wisconsin wrestling would have been like in the 90's if the clubs and academy's that exist now would have been there then.
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getyourpoints
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« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2017, 02:51:28 PM »

2017 D2 state championship matches.
106 Xfactor vs PinNicle
113 no club vs Xfactor
120 Xfactor vs no info
126 combat vs AWA
132 PinNicle vs Advanced
138 aviators/Xfactor vs combat
145 no club vs Xfactor
152 law vs no club
160 no club vs kangaroo
170 no club vs title town
182 no vs no
195 no vs no
220 law vs no
Hwt title town vs no
I'm guessing D3 will be similar. So we can conclude you obviously don't have to be part of a club to be a champ. I'm sure it obviously would help.
Yes at D2 or D3 Not D1.
D1 clearly shows you need to be in a club, and the D2 & D3 numbers are up from last year and the previous year so you can see they are following the D1 trend. When I first started tracking this back in 2013 the D1 numbers were about 70% and now its 93%, and D2 was about 25% and now its about 60%. So based on projections if you have a younger wrestler at home I would say in the future it will be very unlikely to win state without attending a wrestling club. I would like to add that I feel its just as important to be part of a good MS&HS program. I also see a lot of very talented club kids that don't maintain or increase there ability's because they are not in the right HS room. To be a state finalist (especially at D1) it takes an army of support and a talented and motivated wrestler.
I think sports are coached and played on trends more then history, we will bank the trends.

Right with ya on this. As much as people want to argue with it, D2 and D3 is not even on the same level as D1, not even close. At times you may have 1 or 2 individuals in D2 and D3 who could compete for a title at D1, but that's a maybe. Like I said in my earlier post, in this day and age, the "elite" wrestlers are affiliated with a club in some way. The landscape has changed in the past 15 years, and that's not a bad thing by any means. I can only imagine what Wisconsin wrestling would have been like in the 90's if the clubs and academy's that exist now would have been there then.
[/quote
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
My goal in providing the data wasn't to start a debate on D1 -VS- D2&D3 but the data shows a difference currently. However if you go to Freestyle state and look at it as a melting pot of the 3 divisions and its equally represented from all three divisions you will see many of the young cadet and school boy hammers are coming out of D2 schools. So as I posted the trend in D2 & D3 if following the D1 numbers. So I expect in the next few years that it wont matter if you are from a D1-D2 or D3 school, its going to be about how much time you are putting in to your club and your local school.
If you look at the very best kids in the state they go to clubs and great high schools both.
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wrastle63
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« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2017, 04:31:52 PM »

2017 D2 state championship matches.
106 Xfactor vs PinNicle
113 no club vs Xfactor
120 Xfactor vs no info
126 combat vs AWA
132 PinNicle vs Advanced
138 aviators/Xfactor vs combat
145 no club vs Xfactor
152 law vs no club
160 no club vs kangaroo
170 no club vs title town
182 no vs no
195 no vs no
220 law vs no
Hwt title town vs no
I'm guessing D3 will be similar. So we can conclude you obviously don't have to be part of a club to be a champ. I'm sure it obviously would help.
Yes at D2 or D3 Not D1.
D1 clearly shows you need to be in a club, and the D2 & D3 numbers are up from last year and the previous year so you can see they are following the D1 trend. When I first started tracking this back in 2013 the D1 numbers were about 70% and now its 93%, and D2 was about 25% and now its about 60%. So based on projections if you have a younger wrestler at home I would say in the future it will be very unlikely to win state without attending a wrestling club. I would like to add that I feel its just as important to be part of a good MS&HS program. I also see a lot of very talented club kids that don't maintain or increase there ability's because they are not in the right HS room. To be a state finalist (especially at D1) it takes an army of support and a talented and motivated wrestler.
I think sports are coached and played on trends more then history, we will bank the trends.

Right with ya on this. As much as people want to argue with it, D2 and D3 is not even on the same level as D1, not even close. At times you may have 1 or 2 individuals in D2 and D3 who could compete for a title at D1, but that's a maybe. Like I said in my earlier post, in this day and age, the "elite" wrestlers are affiliated with a club in some way. The landscape has changed in the past 15 years, and that's not a bad thing by any means. I can only imagine what Wisconsin wrestling would have been like in the 90's if the clubs and academy's that exist now would have been there then.
Depth of D2 and D3 are not the same as D1 but let's be real there is competition. Stratford lost to D1 runner up by 5 without 3 state champs.  Ellsworth lost by 15 at the Minnesota Xmas tournament to Kaukana with tournament scoring.
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nutman
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« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2017, 05:03:23 PM »

Why would we even argue the D1 vs. D2 and D3?  Of course D1 has more depth because they have thousands of more kids in D1...duh...that's why they are D1.   Guess what, D2 better have more depth than D3.    There are years when the best kid in the state in a particular weight class might be from D2 or D3.     There have been a handful of times when the best team in the state is from D3...that's what makes it historic.    The clubs in the highest populated areas better produce more results.  When a club in a less densely populated area produces wrestlers who can compete with wrestlers from the more densely populated areas, it is really an accomplishment.   That's why many of the national tournaments drive rankings because there are no divisions.  I would say D2 and D3 did their part to represent WISCONSIN at Fargo Nationals this year.  Here's a question:  At the state tournament, which division brings the most fans per wrestler?

From a youth perspective much of this argument has been settled at the LAW duals.  Each year a different club puts together a different crop of studs and is the best club THAT YEAR.  I'm sure No Fear can produce that list of the LAW Dual club places from the past 5-10 years from youth and middle school.  There are many recognizable names who participated in those duals BTW.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 05:11:57 PM by nutman » Logged
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« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2017, 05:03:23 PM »

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bigG
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Woof!


« Reply #65 on: August 14, 2017, 01:48:15 AM »

Heck, I'm just thankful for the clubs.

Thanks for advancing wrestling.
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npope
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« Reply #66 on: August 14, 2017, 07:03:39 AM »

Heck, I'm just thankful for the clubs.

Thanks for advancing wrestling.

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« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 07:07:19 AM by npope » Logged

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Nat Pope
gwmiller44
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« Reply #67 on: August 14, 2017, 07:15:27 AM »

Yong Guns in the Southwest corner?
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Really? Think, Wow!
bigG
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Woof!


« Reply #68 on: August 17, 2017, 05:17:48 AM »

Lancaster has put out some brutes of late.
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ramjet
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« Reply #69 on: August 17, 2017, 03:04:28 PM »

Clubs help the sport. Some more than others but I am thankful for all of them.
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« Reply #69 on: August 17, 2017, 03:04:28 PM »

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bigG
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Woof!


« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2017, 07:12:51 AM »

I remember when I was coaching hearing how far ahead D1 was from us little D3 folks. After we won the Tomah Scramble by 110 points (all divisions), then Bi-State by 95 (all divisions) some of those high-n-mighty D1 mouths finally shadap. Ells, LC, Strat, Fenn., Wrts. are every bit as tough as a D1 school. D1 just has more kids; so there will be more successful wrestlers.
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TripleOT
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« Reply #71 on: August 18, 2017, 09:56:37 AM »

Didn't you end up in six place as a team at the cheesehead tournament that year Big G? Two individual champs as well if I remember right.

Sure D1 should have the numbers but even some of these schools can't put a full team together. I just don't see in HS that the divisions make that much of difference when it comes to making a quality team. I'm bios as I went to a D3 school. Put a bunch of farm boys on the mat and watch the heads turn. Mineral Point, Fennimore and Iowa Grant are still big farm areas and look at the kids coming out of there. Better not forget Lancaster either. 
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bigG
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Woof!


« Reply #72 on: August 18, 2017, 11:08:54 AM »

Yes. Fun team to coach. My last team.

I'd say Strat has outdone us, then some, as my friends in Wrts. did my best year.

Props to great teams. Small school teams that have little numbers but tougher kids than schools with 2,000 kids.
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CityGuy
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« Reply #73 on: August 30, 2017, 12:02:09 PM »

I know Illinois does a Freestyle Cup and most top level club teams attend. I believe Ringers was there as well representing Wisconsin. It would be fun to set one up in Wisconsin and interesting to see the results. Those same kids in Illinois that dual each other go on to dominate Fargo... maybe there doing something right down there?
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« Reply #73 on: August 30, 2017, 12:02:09 PM »

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