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Author Topic: Money; who's got it?  (Read 4978 times)
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Barou
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« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 08:28:05 AM »


It is the coach.......
Just stop lying to yourselves


What do we think the #1 thing is a coach can do for a program? I can make a very compelling case for that thing being recruit. Quality in = Quality Out, with very few exceptions. If "money" brings in better wrestlers, the team will get better. Period.

Not that Cael is a great example, as he is once-in-a-generation in nearly every way, but if he could build a program regardless of resources, don't you think he would have done it at his alma mater, where he was the head coach? Instead, he went somewhere with more money and a more fertile recruiting base, and lo-and-behold, we have Penn State in it's current incarnation.

Money matters.

Barry's recruiting woes had nothing to do with money.  I do agree, however, that there is a correlation in general.  He simply got out recruited, didn't recruit, lied about a recruit, or incorrectly evaluated a recruit when it came down to the Hodge winners and national champions from WI during his tenure - Hartung, Konrad, B Askren, M Askren, and Dieringer.  3 Hodges and 10 national titles out of that group alone and that's not listing the AA's.
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« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2017, 10:49:33 AM »

Not going to argue who he lost; but they weren't Hodges when he "lost" them. Perhaps he was outcoached. Either way, same result. I'm with you, Barou. We have been outcoached, be it recruiting ro what goes on the mat. On the other hand, everyone's been outcoached but Penn State.
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Jap Whizzer
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« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2017, 11:07:32 AM »

Who thinks there's a direct, strong correlation between money in a program and recruiting because ...
...
...

**SPOILER ALERT**

...
...

There is.
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bigG
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« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2017, 06:32:31 PM »

Obviously it makes a difference. Seemingly THE difference in PSU, Cornell, among others.
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getyourpoints
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« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2017, 07:18:50 AM »

We all know facility's make a differance in pulling in blue chip athletes so I think Ohio may be winning the money race. Ohio is wrapping up constructing of a state of the art 25,000 square foot stand alone wrestling facility. They have raised 7.2 million to bulid the best wrestling facility in the world according to Tom Ryan. He said the facility was designed to have everything a wrestler could ever want or need. He also said the facitilty wont win matches, its to insure the athletes how much they care about them.
So IMO I would declare Ohio the new winner.
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« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2017, 07:18:50 AM »

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mkm13
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« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2017, 08:37:03 AM »

I am not sure who is winning, but both PSU and OSU are spending a ton of money. 

It was recently reported PSU offered Jarod Verkleeren no actually scholarship money but offered him a 4 year-$50,000/year contract with the NLWC after college.  If that is actually within NCAA rules, that is a huge advantage as for the teams without that money, the 9.9 scholarships is very limiting.

I question how that can be within NCAA rules and if I would even want the badger to do that if the club had that much money to throw around.
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getyourpoints
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« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2017, 05:56:39 AM »

I am not sure who is winning, but both PSU and OSU are spending a ton of money.  

It was recently reported PSU offered Jarod Verkleeren no actually scholarship money but offered him a 4 year-$50,000/year contract with the NLWC after college.  If that is actually within NCAA rules, that is a huge advantage as for the teams without that money, the 9.9 scholarships is very limiting.

I question how that can be within NCAA rules and if I would even want the badger to do that if the club had that much money to throw around.
I agree with you.
I am not sure what the role of the RTC's will be in the future becuase of how cloudy it makes the rules. What it is doing similar to football is creating a huge divid between the elite coaches and programs and the rest of college program's. On a selfish note it would be fun if the University of Wisconsin wanted to get in the game and put a top ten elite program together. Great coaches in 2017 are great fund raisers and recruiters, so with out a great coach you will fall behind, and for a long time. If the Badgers wait much longer they will be unable to ever get a great coach.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 01:37:55 PM by getyourpoints » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2017, 07:15:53 AM »

It would be nice to transition to a new coach. Our school must be happy with the status quo. I'd rather lead in research than in sports, though. You don't get a ton of C Medberys out there.
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getyourpoints
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« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2017, 01:47:35 PM »

It would be nice to transition to a new coach. Our school must be happy with the status quo. I'd rather lead in research than in sports, though. You don't get a ton of C Medberys out there.
The only issue with that is all the Big10 schools rank high in reserch (8 in the top 100) and a few currently rank higher then Wisconsin at #44.
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npope
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« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2017, 05:31:31 PM »

Comparing an institution's research ranking with its wrestling ranking is a "straw man" argument. What really matters is what the wrestling program does with its wrestlers in terms of education, mat results, future career, etc. Even if an institution has great research AND great sports, e.g., wrestling, it doesn't mean that it is meeting its stated mission. Go find the institution's mission statement and I am pretty confident that it will talk in terms of the individual - not the institution; it will talk in terms of the maximization of the individual's potential. If a school has a great sports program and a great research ranking but no connection between the individual achieving (significant) success in the classroom (and beyond), it simply isn't meeting its stated goals.

The "Ivory Tower" syndrome in action...if the academic success of athletes aren't factored into the equation.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 05:20:12 AM by npope » Logged

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Nat Pope
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« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2017, 05:31:31 PM »

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bigG
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« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2017, 05:50:46 PM »

Mission statements are nice window dressing. The best schools offer great academics and extracurriculars. My point is, we're not talking about good sports, but rather, elite athletics. PSU and tOSU Have gorgeous wrestling, and football. WI has lesser wrestling, and, usually, better hoops.

I'd love a monster wrestling team. Truth is Badgerland isn't as dedicated, as a state as are Illinois and Minnesota. We seem a bit more of a basketball state than most of us would like to believe.

"The primary purpose of the University of Wisconsin–Madison is to provide a learning environment in which faculty, staff and students can discover, examine critically, preserve and transmit the knowledge, wisdom and values that will help ensure the survival of this and future generations and improve the quality of life for all. The university seeks to help students to develop an understanding and appreciation for the complex cultural and physical worlds in which they live and to realize their highest potential of intellectual, physical and human development."

UW Mission statement

Penn State really doesn't have a mission statement so much as a mission page which delineates how it goes about excellence.

Mission statements are nice to read; but often without teeth.

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MNbadger
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« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2017, 06:31:43 PM »

UW Madison was in the top twenty research institutions perennially until only very recently.
It would be nice to transition to a new coach. Our school must be happy with the status quo. I'd rather lead in research than in sports, though. You don't get a ton of C Medberys out there.
The only issue with that is all the Big10 schools rank high in reserch (8 in the top 100) and a few currently rank higher then Wisconsin at #44.
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« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2017, 08:03:59 AM »

UW Madison was in the top twenty research institutions perennially until only very recently.
It would be nice to transition to a new coach. Our school must be happy with the status quo. I'd rather lead in research than in sports, though. You don't get a ton of C Medberys out there.
The only issue with that is all the Big10 schools rank high in reserch (8 in the top 100) and a few currently rank higher then Wisconsin at #44.

Apparently research is a subjective term: 23. University of Wisconsin – Madison

http://www.bestcollegereviews.org/top-research-universities/

Only 8 Div 1 wrestling schools (could be 9 if I missed one) ahead of WI and not many better than UW. Cornell and lesser so Michigan have consistently outpaced UW wrestling.

23. University of Wisconsin – Madison
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getyourpoints
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« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2017, 09:48:53 AM »

UW Madison was in the top twenty research institutions perennially until only very recently.
It would be nice to transition to a new coach. Our school must be happy with the status quo. I'd rather lead in research than in sports, though. You don't get a ton of C Medberys out there.
The only issue with that is all the Big10 schools rank high in reserch (8 in the top 100) and a few currently rank higher then Wisconsin at #44.

Apparently research is a subjective term: 23. University of Wisconsin – Madison

http://www.bestcollegereviews.org/top-research-universities/

Only 8 Div 1 wrestling schools (could be 9 if I missed one) ahead of WI and not many better than UW. Cornell and lesser so Michigan have consistently outpaced UW wrestling.

23. University of Wisconsin – Madison
____________________________________________________________________
True statement I found a few reviews that the were not even ranked in the to 100.
The most resent review of Top Choice College reviews and ranking no longer even lists them in there top 50 review. They did have several schools that have quality wrestling programs though.
So I guess the point is I would not use research as a recruiting tool.
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« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2017, 09:48:53 AM »

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lizard king
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« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2017, 12:03:50 PM »

Say what you want winning is important, then comes money, or at least at the same time.  An occasional kid will pick UW because of the academic programs, but most D1 schools are good.
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