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Author Topic: Depth Chart  (Read 7436 times)
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mkm13
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« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2017, 09:14:04 PM »

He certainly could beat those guys. That doesn't mean he has a 95% chance of winning...especially when the cut to 125 for him is real difficult. 

Campbell at this point is a low AA. 165 is stacked. Hall and Joseph could both lose and PSU is still favorites.
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aarons23
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« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2017, 09:26:45 PM »

He certainly could beat those guys. That doesn't mean he has a 95% chance of winning...especially when the cut to 125 for him is real difficult. 

Campbell at this point is a low AA. 165 is stacked. Hall and Joseph could both lose and PSU is still favorites.

Hall may never loose another college match.
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wrastle63
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« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2017, 09:46:36 PM »

In a duel meet, yes.  In the national tournament where bonus points matter more, almost everything would need to fall into place to have a chance.  Moore and Nato have less than a 95% chance of being champs.

Snyder is the best wrestler in college, but in the national championship setting, Nickel, Retherford, and Nolf will all likely score more points than he does as they pin a higher percentage than Snyder does.
Nato would only have problems with Cruz and Suriano and he could beat those guys! Moore's biggest threats just graduated, so 95% was a low number to me. They both are about 99% to win as far as I see it. Ohio State was wrestling minus 2 guys as well as Penn State. Now that Campbell is filling the 65 spot and Pletcher is doing 33 they will match Penn State really good! Cortez will be back at 33, but I think he won't contribute as much as Pletcher does. I will say that Penn State's freshman 41 pounder will make AA this next season and do some damage! Penn State could make up ground with him in the lineup!
Lots of coulds. NATO was the 1 seed this year and didn't win. Plus he hasn't announced he's going to 125. If he doesn't go Pletcher isn't wrestling 33 and your whole plan is nothing.
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MNbadger
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« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2017, 10:19:58 PM »

If those three pin a higher percentage of their opponents, wouldn't/shouldn't they be considered better wrestlers?
In a duel meet, yes.  In the national tournament where bonus points matter more, almost everything would need to fall into place to have a chance.  Moore and Nato have less than a 95% chance of being champs.

Snyder is the best wrestler in college, but in the national championship setting, Nickel, Retherford, and Nolf will all likely score more points than he does as they pin a higher percentage than Snyder does.
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billymurphy
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« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2017, 12:51:52 AM »

Penn State has two
guys that pretty much pin or tech fall everybody.
And Suriano likely would have
won nationals had he not wrestled in the Oklahoma State dual meet late in the season(125 finalist were very beatable).
And Hall could lose another match in his career as he is not exactly big for his weight class.
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« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2017, 12:51:52 AM »

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mkm13
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« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2017, 06:27:37 AM »

If those three pin a higher percentage of their opponents, wouldn't/shouldn't they be considered better wrestlers?


Because those 3 are not winning olympic gold metals and world championships yet (I know, freestyle).  But yes, in the NCAA tournament setting, I would pick those 3 over Snyder as they will likely score more points.
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Barou
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« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2017, 08:38:07 AM »

Penn State has two
guys that pretty much pin or tech fall everybody.
And Suriano likely would have
won nationals had he not wrestled in the Oklahoma State dual meet late in the season(125 finalist were very beatable).
And Hall could lose another match in his career as he is not exactly big for his weight class.

I think Hall will fill into his weight class.  Beatable but will only get better.
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JHI Mafia
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« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2017, 10:01:16 AM »

If you would pick them over Snyder they are then the better wrestlers.  By your own statement they pin more.  Pinning is the ultimate goal in wrestling.  If they would score more points, they are better wrestlers.
If those three pin a higher percentage of their opponents, wouldn't/shouldn't they be considered better wrestlers?


Because those 3 are not winning olympic gold metals and world championships yet (I know, freestyle).  But yes, in the NCAA tournament setting, I would pick those 3 over Snyder as they will likely score more points.
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I would like to reach through the screen and slap the next person who starts a thread about "global warming." Wraslfan
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mkm13
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« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2017, 10:14:26 AM »

If you would pick them over Snyder they are then the better wrestlers.  By your own statement they pin more.  Pinning is the ultimate goal in wrestling.  If they would score more points, they are better wrestlers.

IMO the ultimate goal in wrestling, just like any sport, is to win.  Snyder is the best at that when competing against the best in the world (above the NCAA level).  All 4 wrestlers are good enough to always win all matches at the NCAA level..so in terms of NCAA impact, the 3 PSU wrestlers are better.

If all the NCAA champs went on to wrestle against the worlds best in another tournament, who do you think has the best chance of winning?
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MNbadger
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« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2017, 10:49:08 AM »

Traditionally our best NCAA wrestlers do quite well.  Pinning is more valued than winning or we would not assign 6 points for it.
If you would pick them over Snyder they are then the better wrestlers.  By your own statement they pin more.  Pinning is the ultimate goal in wrestling.  If they would score more points, they are better wrestlers.

IMO the ultimate goal in wrestling, just like any sport, is to win.  Snyder is the best at that when competing against the best in the world (above the NCAA level).  All 4 wrestlers are good enough to always win all matches at the NCAA level..so in terms of NCAA impact, the 3 PSU wrestlers are better.

If all the NCAA champs went on to wrestle against the worlds best in another tournament, who do you think has the best chance of winning?
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I would like to reach through the screen and slap the next person who starts a thread about "global warming." Wraslfan
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"MN will eventually go the way of Greece." Wraslfan
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« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2017, 10:49:08 AM »

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wrastle63
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« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2017, 10:49:32 AM »

If you would pick them over Snyder they are then the better wrestlers.  By your own statement they pin more.  Pinning is the ultimate goal in wrestling.  If they would score more points, they are better wrestlers.

IMO the ultimate goal in wrestling, just like any sport, is to win.  Snyder is the best at that when competing against the best in the world (above the NCAA level).  All 4 wrestlers are good enough to always win all matches at the NCAA level..so in terms of NCAA impact, the 3 PSU wrestlers are better.

If all the NCAA champs went on to wrestle against the worlds best in another tournament, who do you think has the best chance of winning?
Agreed you could say they are better folkstyle wrestlers than Snyder. Guys like Nolf and Retherford win a lot of there matches because of mat wrestling whereas Snyder is just on his feet. This lends itself to freestyle better.
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mkm13
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« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2017, 12:12:55 PM »

Traditionally our best NCAA wrestlers do quite well.  Pinning is more valued than winning or we would not assign 6 points for it.


Traditionally very few of of our best NCAA wrestlers ever come close to what Snyder has already done on the world level.  I would be pleasantly surprised if one of the 3 PSU wrestlers came close to what he has already accomplished.

I am a big fan of Nolf, Retherford, and Nickal...so this is my last post.  I just don't think they are even the best at this point in their careers at their weight in the US, let alone the world like Snyder is.
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stbird
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« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2017, 12:13:57 PM »

Nato never sees 125 again.    
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MNbadger
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« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2017, 01:19:19 PM »

Actually, there are a few Olympic and World Champs from the US who never won NCAA championships.
Traditionally our best NCAA wrestlers do quite well.  Pinning is more valued than winning or we would not assign 6 points for it.


Traditionally very few of of our best NCAA wrestlers ever come close to what Snyder has already done on the world level.  I would be pleasantly surprised if one of the 3 PSU wrestlers came close to what he has already accomplished.

I am a big fan of Nolf, Retherford, and Nickal...so this is my last post.  I just don't think they are even the best at this point in their careers at their weight in the US, let alone the world like Snyder is.

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I would like to reach through the screen and slap the next person who starts a thread about "global warming." Wraslfan
"Obama thinks we should all be on welfare."  BigG
"MN will eventually go the way of Greece." Wraslfan
Wisconsin Wrestling Online
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2017, 01:19:19 PM »

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Jimmy
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« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2017, 01:37:55 PM »

I don't see Hall growing into a full 174pounder. He needs to stay closer to 163 for international competition.
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