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Author Topic: MIDLANDS  (Read 9412 times)
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knight/purgolder
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« Reply #150 on: January 02, 2017, 05:22:17 PM »

This post has touched on many things and it has danced around many things!  I just wanted to say one more thing before I become just a spectator.  Think about how success breeds success!  And think about how mediocre and underachieving brings nothing!  I would think that everyone here has played the game Monopoly and understands the rules or understands what a monopoly is. Programs like the top 8 in the nation will continue to have a monopoly on the best recruits.  Programs like the Badgers need to identify this and make changes to not fade out!  I can see how these monopolies can hurt all of wrestling!  Who's gonna want to root for a team that gets beat 45 to 0 by one of the monopolies! And then after that the very same team will get beat bad by average teams or D2 or D3 teams!  The only fans that will be left is people like wrastle63! I just wanted to add some perspective not just to the Badgers, but to the sport of wrestling.  See everyone Friday!
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npope
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« Reply #151 on: January 02, 2017, 05:32:40 PM »


It's a flipping badger wrestling forum. People on here aren't living vicariously through anyone. Some people think d1 wrestling is more than just living the journey. Most of the critics like badger wrestling and think it has potential to be better. Pretty sure most of us regular posters manage to get through life whether Barry is the hc or not.

Yes indeed, it is a "flipping" Badger wrestling forum - let's talk about what really "flipping" great things the wrestling program is doing to make the wrestlers better people (unless that isn't important or even the whole goal?). It sounds as though you think the only metric as to the value of the program is their won and lost record - please correct me if I am wrong.

I love it that Medbery is looking at pre-med - incredible!! I also love it that he will likely challenge for a title this year. I think it's great when we see a Badger wrestler on the academic honor role (don't see enough of them there, IMO). Did you know that former Badger (and all-american) Tony Black was in school on an academic scholarship? Fantastic! I would love to hear more about how these teams go to visit children's hospitals. Wonderful! There are things going on that dwarf the on-the-mat results in terms of meaningful results. This fixation on tournament results is far too limiting.

Discussing the on-the-mat-results is great, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that it the thing. Perspective, Barou, perspective.

And with all due respect to Tom, it wouldn't have been the end of the world if Detroit had won the North division. Blasphemy, I know.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 05:41:34 PM by npope » Logged

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Nat Pope
knight/purgolder
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« Reply #152 on: January 02, 2017, 05:46:37 PM »

I have to say something about this npope.  There would be no Badger wrestling forum without a WRESTLING TEAM! Why have any sport teams then if we shouldn't care on the teams results being it pro or am?  Caring about an individuals personal life is up to the people in that person's life not mine or yours.  I would hope that ever athlete carries themselves in a respectable manner. This issue that you are concerned with is not what is even being argued.  This is more of a staff issue and not an athlete issue.
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npope
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« Reply #153 on: January 02, 2017, 05:55:57 PM »

I have to say something about this npope.  There would be no Badger wrestling forum without a WRESTLING TEAM! Why have any sport teams then if we shouldn't care on the teams results being it pro or am?  Caring about an individuals personal life is up to the people in that person's life not mine or yours.  I would hope that ever athlete carries themselves in a respectable manner. This issue that you are concerned with is not what is even being argued.  This is more of a staff issue and not an athlete issue.

Caring about the wrestling team can reach beyond merely on-the-mat results, right? So why do some seem intent on focusing only on that aspect? Can't there be more to the equation?

Look, I have no dog in this fight as to whether the coaching staff is doing a "good" job. All i am saying is that the measure of what constitutes a "good" job is more than winning on the mat...and I think you and others would agree to that in a less emotionally charged moment. So, think about it a bit and then come back and demand on a public forum that some guy needs to have his livelihood taken from him because he isn't "doing what he's supposed to be doing."
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Nat Pope
wrastle63
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« Reply #154 on: January 02, 2017, 05:58:15 PM »

Especially considering one programs arrow is pointing up and one is pointing down.
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« Reply #154 on: January 02, 2017, 05:58:15 PM »

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knight/purgolder
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« Reply #155 on: January 02, 2017, 06:08:54 PM »

 I don't think so unless you plan on being best friends with everyone on the team. You care about your life, I care about what's in mine, the athletes care about there's! One common thing we all have is the wrestling.  That is what is being talked about!  I don't think any of them care what you or I think of them. 
Your livelihood and mine would be in jeopardy if we didn't do what was expected of us. Why should the Badger staff be any different?  I the eyes of the majority though the staff is doing a great job.
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aarons23
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« Reply #156 on: January 02, 2017, 06:16:16 PM »

I have to say something about this npope.  There would be no Badger wrestling forum without a WRESTLING TEAM! Why have any sport teams then if we shouldn't care on the teams results being it pro or am?  Caring about an individuals personal life is up to the people in that person's life not mine or yours.  I would hope that ever athlete carries themselves in a respectable manner. This issue that you are concerned with is not what is even being argued.  This is more of a staff issue and not an athlete issue.

Caring about the wrestling team can reach beyond merely on-the-mat results, right? So why do some seem intent on focusing only on that aspect? Can't there be more to the equation?

Look, I have no dog in this fight as to whether the coaching staff is doing a "good" job. All i am saying is that the measure of what constitutes a "good" job is more than winning on the mat...and I think you and others would agree to that in a less emotionally charged moment. So, think about it a bit and then come back and demand on a public forum that some guy needs to have his livelihood taken from him because he isn't "doing what he's supposed to be doing."

So you think we as fans should have no expectations?  I for one don't believe that...if your only expectation is to produce good people....great....I expect that to be one of expectations....but also for the university to put the best effort into putting the best possible team on yhe mat....just like tbey do in football.   I dont care if its a major or minor sports...those athletes are just as important.
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Opinions are not facts. Because two people differ in opinions doesn't make one of them wrong.
mkm13
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« Reply #157 on: January 02, 2017, 06:51:37 PM »

There should be expectations. I think some people disagree what the expectations should be. Where the team was at 3 to 4 years ago was completely unacceptable. How far we have come since then is acceptable to me. Obviously for some anything less than national championship contention is not.  It is also nice that Barry has shown he can take talented athletes and help them become national championship contenders.

For the record, I am also very happy with the men's basketball and football results over the last 20 years. They have also not been national championship contenders, except for Bo's last 2 years, but they have still been very successful and fun for me to follow.

Thankfully knight didn't get Bo fired for not having a championship contender team his first 12 years at UW...so we could enjoy the 2 years where things came together and we were just short of winning it.
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knight/purgolder
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« Reply #158 on: January 02, 2017, 07:01:08 PM »

Bo's results are much better that Barry's are considering you are comparing a team sport with a individual sport!  I think Barry could do better if he could have tag team wrestling, so when one of the guys are losing they could tag Conner and he could smash like hulk!
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mkm13
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« Reply #159 on: January 02, 2017, 07:31:59 PM »

I agree Bo's results were better...never said otherwise.  You just got done saying your expectations were national championship contenders. My point is that is very rare for any wisconsin sport, including football and basketball.
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« Reply #159 on: January 02, 2017, 07:31:59 PM »

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knight/purgolder
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« Reply #160 on: January 02, 2017, 07:47:56 PM »

mkm13 you are a very confused dude!  Your statements are all over the place. Did you and wrastle63  post from the bar together while watching the Badgers win today? I think you guys need a designated poster while on the forum!
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Barou
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« Reply #161 on: January 02, 2017, 08:07:51 PM »


It's a flipping badger wrestling forum. People on here aren't living vicariously through anyone. Some people think d1 wrestling is more than just living the journey. Most of the critics like badger wrestling and think it has potential to be better. Pretty sure most of us regular posters manage to get through life whether Barry is the hc or not.

Yes indeed, it is a "flipping" Badger wrestling forum - let's talk about what really "flipping" great things the wrestling program is doing to make the wrestlers better people (unless that isn't important or even the whole goal?). It sounds as though you think the only metric as to the value of the program is their won and lost record - please correct me if I am wrong.

I love it that Medbery is looking at pre-med - incredible!! I also love it that he will likely challenge for a title this year. I think it's great when we see a Badger wrestler on the academic honor role (don't see enough of them there, IMO). Did you know that former Badger (and all-american) Tony Black was in school on an academic scholarship? Fantastic! I would love to hear more about how these teams go to visit children's hospitals. Wonderful! There are things going on that dwarf the on-the-mat results in terms of meaningful results. This fixation on tournament results is far too limiting.

Discussing the on-the-mat-results is great, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that it the thing. Perspective, Barou, perspective.

And with all due respect to Tom, it wouldn't have been the end of the world if Detroit had won the North division. Blasphemy, I know.

You are wrong. I absolutely do not think wins/losses is the only metric. I don't think you have to choose between success and academic success, good quality people, etc. I've criticized Barry as being either a poor talent evaluator in recruiting and/or poor at selling his program to top end recruits particularly all the national titles that have left Wisconsin for better programs. I have heard nothing but great things about the character of guys like hartung, Konrad, dieringer, and the askrens. I know for sure b askren was all academic big 12, not sure about the other guys. It's not like Barry is without indescretions. Former wrestlers have come on this very forum and described how Barry flat out lied to them at the kitchen table. Falsely going public that dieringer could not meet academic requirements, not cool. The pritzloff fiasco that resulted in all Americans transferring.

Here's "perspective". Of course it's great to have great character athletes and great academics, who doesn't want that? Reality is people aren't going to the field house to talk academics. The all academic kids aren't as important to all Americans if you want to build/grow a program. You're a smart guy and although very noble, the vast majority of fans don't think like you do. It's results driven.
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mkm13
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« Reply #162 on: January 02, 2017, 08:09:29 PM »

You complained about us "not being in the running" and "not being a contender" multiple times. Those negative comments are why I was originally wasting my time with you. So no, I have not been all over the place. But I am done wasting my time with you.
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wrastle63
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« Reply #163 on: January 02, 2017, 08:29:39 PM »

Yea knight has nothing to do but attack people and ignore facts and the obvious. The Badgers are obviously much better as a team and individually than the past few years. We are deeper as a team and are wrestling a more aggressive style. Are we going to win the national team title this year? No but we have made great improvements. Those will only get better with our young team and great recruits we are pulling in.
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« Reply #163 on: January 02, 2017, 08:29:39 PM »

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knight/purgolder
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« Reply #164 on: January 02, 2017, 08:55:00 PM »

Not attacking anyone just making comments to the 2 that are responding to me the most.  Wrastle63  what is your response to my question to "how long is overnight." You can enlighten me on the obvious and the facts. You yourself admitted that you are ok with never being a contender, so what does your perception value?
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